Samuel Ervin (b 1771-1777 MD or PA)

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Amy
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Who are the children of Samuel Ervin (b-1771/1777 MD or PA) that can be seen in southeastern Ohio counties from 1820 to 1860?

To try and answer this question I dive into the census records as that is what is available to me.

What little we know about Samuel comes from the census records and word of mouth handed down from previous generations.

Census records tell us the following:

In 1820 Samuel is in Jackson County
In 1830 Samuel is in Hocking County
In 1840 Samuel is in Athens County
In 1850 Samuel is in Vinton County
In 1860 Samuel is in Vinton County, Elk Twp. living with Owen Ervin.

There are only three census records that may give us actual names as to who his children are: 1850, 1860 and 1870 Vinton County censuses.

In the 1850 Vinton County census, we find Samuel and wife Jane with two teenagers in the household that MAY be their children. We also see a Sarah Ervin listed at age 28 that could also be his daughter. It is also in this census that we get the information concerning his MD birth in 1777.

From the 1850 census Samuel's children may be:
David, age 16 (b-1834)
Margaret, age 14 (b-1836)
Sarah, age 28 (1822)

In the 1860 Vinton County census, we find Samuel living with an Owen Ervin and his family. We presume that Owen may be a son. Who else would take in an elderly man at the age of 89? Possibly a son. So where is Jane? We find Jane "Irvin"/Ervin living with a Jacob and Eliza Lyons, also in Vinton County. It should be noted that it is this census where we get the information about Samuel being born 1771 in PA. So, Owen Ervin may be one of Samuel's sons.

We don't find Samuel anymore after 1860, so we make the presumption that he died sometime between 1860 and 1870. But Jane, being the much younger widow lives on.

We find her in Vinton County, Clinton Twp. in 1870 "Living with Daughter" Sarah Ervin who married a William MARTIN. It should also be noted that listed in this household is a David SOWARDS who goes on to marry Mary M. ERVIN who is one of Owen Ervin's daughters from his second marriage. It is this census record that lends more credibility to the Sarah listed in the 1850 census being Samuel's daughter.

We find a Vinton County death record in 1879 for a Jane Ervin born approx 1796 that fits Samuel's widow, and it's in Clinton Township, so we are fairly certain that this is our Jane.

To recap thus far, we can say that the following are all possible children of Samuel and Jane Ervin:

Owen Ervin, Sarah Ervin, David Ervin and Margaret Ervin.

In my next post, I will discuss more possibilities into who Samuel's other children may have been by looking into some of the earliest census records.

Sources - Ancestry.com Census Records

Questions and additional theories welcome!
Amy Ervin-Smithson

Amy
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Joined: Feb 13 2008
Samuel Ervin and the Early Ohio Census Records

This post deals more specifically with the identification of Samuel Ervin's possible children by looking at the information provided to us in the census records from 1820 to 1840.

In 1820, Jackson County, Samuel Ervin is listed as "ERWIN" with the oldest female in the household fitting Jane's approximate date of birth. He has 5 boys under the age of 16 and 2 girls that are under the age of 10. Owen Ervin, being born abt 1814, fits one of these boys. We should note that the Thomas Erwin listed on the same page of this census is believed to be Samuel's son. This information comes from a J. Willis Ervin who was told by his grandfather that Samuel Ervin was his ggg-grandfather, although he has a book reference as well.

In the 1830 Jackson County census, Samuel is gone (he's in Hocking County) but we do see some new names in the picture. Thomas Irvin is still there and living right next to him is a George Irvin. This George could be one of the three sons born between 1805 and 1810 that we see in the 1820 census. Looking at the 1830 Hocking Co. census, Samuel has 4 boys. He's missing at least one and George could be one of them. Samuel also has 6 girls now, an increase of 4. We're up to 12 possible children if you're keeping track.

Let's take a look at the 1840's. In Jackson county, we see some new names and we're missing one - Thomas. He died in 1836 leaving his widow Sarah Thatcher Ervin with several young children. She went west to Appanoose Co, Iowa after his death. George Ervin is still there, Owen is of age and is now visible, we see a younger Samuel pop up and we see an Alexander and Robert come into view. I should mention that out of the new faces appearing in the 1840 Jackson Co. census, only two, the younger Samuel and Robert, fit the born between 1805-1810 category, while Alexander could possibly be one of the boys born bet 1811-1820 that we see in the 1820 Jackson Co. census. But, the question remains, IF George, this younger Samuel, Robert and Alexander are Samuel's sons, where are they during the years that we don't see them? I am open to any and all thoughts regarding this.

One fact that eliminates Alexander Brandon and Robert Ervin as being sons of Samuel is that Alexander lists Virginia as being his place of birth in the 1850 Vinton County census. In the 1880 Jackson County Milton Twp census, he lists Virginia as the place of birth for both his mother and father as well. This coupled with the fact that Robert Ervin's will of Jackson county specifically names Alexander as his brother, makes the speculation that they are Samuel's sons highly improbable.

Looking at Samuel's 1840 Athens County household, we see the following: Males Ages 0-4 (1836-1840) - 1 Ages 5-9 (1831-1835) - 3 Females Ages 0-4 (1836-1840) - 1 Ages 5-9 (1831-1835) - 0 Ages 10-14 (1826-1830) - 2 Ages 15-19 (1821-1825) - 1 If we compare ages and years only, it is clear that the three youngest boys in Samuel's 1830 household are not in his household in 1840. Instead there are 4 new boys all under the age of 10. It also appears that the 3 eldest girls from the 1830 census have also either married off or have died young (as was fairly common in those days), as there are 4 girls in Samuel's 1840 household and one is under the age of 5. And so, we are back to 1850 Vinton County, Vinton Twp.: Samuel Ervin, age 73, (b-1777), M, Laborer, MD Jane, age 54, (b-1796), F, KY David, age 16, (b-1834), M, Laborer, OH Margaret, age 14, (b-1836), F, OH John Edridge, age 14, (b-1836), M, OH Sarah Ervin, age 28, (b-1822), F, OH William Pierce, age 8, (b-1842), M, OH William Mackum, age 29, (b-1821), M, Laborer, PA According to the above, David seems to fit one of the 3 boys born between 1831-1835, Margaret seems to fit the youngest girl born between 1836-1840 and Sarah fits the eldest female's description. But as always, there seems to be 5 children missing between 1840 and 1850. Thoughts, ideas or answers?? I'm not sure that we've answered who Samuel's children are with certainty, but in the true spirit of genealogical researching we have created some new questions and tossed out some highly unlikely relationships in the process. It seems at this point that the children who could still be considered children of Samuel are the following: Thomas, Owen, George, younger Samuel, David, Sarah and Margaret.

In my next post I will dive deeper into Owen, George, and the younger Samuel to try and determine if they can still be considered possibilities. As always, comments, questions and your own theories are most welcome! Amy Ervin-Smithson Descendant of Owen Ervin.

PS - Other questions that come up during this research: If you compare the children in Samuel's household between 1820 and 1830 you realize that he's missing the 3 sons born between 1805 and 1810 in the 1830 census. One of these could be the new George that pops up during this time. But where are the other 2? The men would be between 20 and 29 years of age. Even looking in surrounding counties you don't find another Ervin variation that fits into this scenario. Did they relocate farther away? Did they possibly die from disease or from a work related injury? We may never know. In 1840 a younger Samuel Ervin (b bet 1801-1810) appears that could be one of the other "missing" boys, but where was he during the 1830's? The same thing holds true for the new Robert - but we've already eliminated him.

Kathie
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Joined: Feb 18 2008
Samuel Jr.

Amy, I am descended from Samuel Jr. and also believe that he is the son of the elder Samuel. For one thing, he is using the title Jr., which makes one presume that his father's name was also Samuel. Also, the 1830 Vinton, Athens, Ohio census shows Samuel (Jr.) and wife listed next to a William Pierce, who has 10 children.

Samuel Ervin - Males: 1 20-30 Females: 1 20-30

In the 1850 Vinton twp census, an 8-yr-old Wm Pierce appears living with the family of Samuel Sr. & Jane, who are listed in the census just two places away from William Pierce Sr. & family. This would seem to indicate a family relationship between Samuel Jr. & Sr. and that Samuel Sr. is occupying the same property in 1852 that Samuel Jr. was occupying in 1830.

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Kathie
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Samuel Sr. in the 1850 Census

Amy, I don't know if you are aware of the fact that Samuel Sr. appears in the 1850 census twice; once in Vinton, Vinton, Ohio in August and once in Porter, Scioto, Ohio in September. In the first one his birthplace is listed as Maryland.

Ervin, Samuel, 73 yrs, Occupation: laborer Birthplace: Md
- Jane Ervin, 54 yrs, Birthplace: Ky
- Daniel Ervin, 16 yrs, Birthplace: Ohio
- Margaret Ervin, 14 yrs, Birthplace: Ohio
- John Edridge, 14 yrs, Birthplace: Ohio
- Sarah Ervin, 28, Birthplace: Ohio
- William Pierce, 8 yrs, Birthplace:Ohio
- Willliam Mackan, 29 yrs, Birthplace: Pa, Occupation: laborer

In the second it is listed as Virginia, but his age is also wrong so maybe he wasn't home that day.
Samuel Irvin, 60 yrs, Occupation: laborer, Birthplace: Va
 - Jane, 53 yrs, Birthplace: Va
- Sarah, 28 yrs, Birthplace: O
- Jacob, 21 yrs, Birthplace: O
- Isaac, 19 yrs, Birthplace: O, attended school
- Daniel, 17 yrs, Birthplace: O, attended school
- Margaret, 14 yrs, Birthplace: O, attended school
- John, 14 yrs, Birthplace: O, attended school (John Edridge?)
- Wm H, 8 yrs, Birthplace: O, (William Pierce?)
- Jenny, 23 yrs, Birthplace: O

I will attach a pdf of what I have on Samuel Sr.

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Amy
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Kathie - At first glance

Kathie - At first glance this Scioto county census is looking promising!! I can't believe this has gone unnoticed by me!! It is answering many lingering questions I had. I will need to spend a little time going back through some of my notes to get my thoughts clear again, especially now that you've shown me this.

One point I find especially fascinating is the Eliza Mickum connection you've made. She's been on my hotlist for some time but I wasn't sure how she fit in. But I knew she was connected somehow because Jane is living with Eliza and Jacob Lyons in the 1860 census. And my question always was Why would Jane be living with them unless Eliza was her daughter? I've assumed without proof that this was possibly a daughter from Jane's previous marriage? I also had thought that maybe William MACKAN and Eliza MICKUM were brother/sister and that their surnames had been slaughtered in the censuses, (which we've all seen before) So I am very interested in what you've been able to find out about her role in this family.

Kathie
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Joined: Feb 18 2008
Amy, I am also making an

Amy, I am also making an assumption that Eliza is their daughter, for the same reasons you do. Why else would Jane be living with her. But of course, it is only a guess. One reason I think she could be the widow of Daniel Mecum is that he seems to completely disappear after the 1850 census. No sign of him anywhere. I have tried to find a death record for Eliza's son, William Martin Lyons, thinking that he would list his mother's maiden name but I haven't had any luck yet.

Amy
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Hi Kathie - Alright, well I

Hi Kathie - Alright, well I was hoping maybe you had found something a little more concrete than I had where she was concerned.

I'm still enjoying all these new leads from this 1850 Scioto census. I guess what amazes me the most is that Samuel must have suffered from dementia quite early in life to continue to change his birthplace (PA, MD and now VA!?) and forget his age, etc. I guess this is what led to his confinement in the Insane Asylum. And poor Jane...she must have had enough of him to leave him prior to his death.

Kathie
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Joined: Feb 18 2008
Are you joking about the

Are you joking about the insane asylum or did he really end up there? and how do you know about it?

Amy
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Not Joking

No, I'm not joking!

There's a translation of it on here somewhere...let me find it. Ah, here it is...
http://www.leavesonbranches.com/content/node/962

Sharon Peery, a long time family historian, found it years ago during a trip to Vinton County.

Happy Reading!

Kathie
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Joined: Feb 18 2008
Wow! How strange. I've

Wow! How strange. I've always wondered why he and Jane were living seperately in the 1860 census.

Kathie
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Joined: Feb 18 2008
Who is Eliza Mickum?

So back to the subject of Eliza Mickum (Ervin?) for a moment. I had a couple of successes yesterday. I found Eliza Mickum (Ervin?)'s grave listed on Findagrave.com and the entry lists her maiden name as Ervin. I have written to the contributor to find out where the "Ervin" part of the name came from--tombstone or other source. Hopefully it's not one of the many dead email addresses out there. Eliza is buried in Temple Cemetery in Meigs county, so I guess we could get someone to check the tombstone if need be.

So the good news is now we have a death date for her--18 Dec 1908--but the bad news is that she died just weeks before her death certificate would have required parents names. I did find the death info on her son, William Martin Lyons, and we may be able to get her maiden name off of his death certificate. He is also in Temple Cemetery but with a death date listed as simply 1953. I think the Ohio Historical Society has death certificates through that year, so where the mother's death date was unlucky, the son's is rather the opposite. I notice that your location is Columbus Ohio so I'm wondering if you want to visit the OHS library and see if you can find it or if I should write for a search. Let me know. - Kathie

Amy
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This is interesting! I'm

This is interesting! I'm curious now to find out the "Mickum" that she married prior to Jacob Lyons?

Yes I should be able to drive 10 minutes for a death certificate.

Kathie
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Joined: Feb 18 2008
So now I'm confused

I just received in the mail a copy of the death certificate of Margaret Ervin Mollihan, who married Edward Mollihan Sept 22, 1859 in Vinton County. Now, I had always presumed she was the Margaret who appears on the 1850 census in Samuel Sr's household and I still believe she is. The confusing thing is that her death certificate lists her father as "Wm Owen" and her mother as "unknown." So did her son James, who was the informant, forget to put the last name of Ervin after Wm Owen, or is Owen the last name and Margaret just went by Ervin and it was not her legal name. This is soooo confusing!

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Amy
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Well this is very

Well this is very interesting indeed! Dorothy Morgan used to tell me that she thought Margaret was Samuel's daughter, but I never thought that. I'd actually have to pull out some of my "conversations" with her to find out exactly why again.

I've seen a William O Ervin before and I wonder now if it could be the same person as this?

Amy
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Oops! I have a correction to

Oops! I have a correction to make after looking over the correspondence between Dorothy and I - she said she thought Margaret was Owen's daughter not Samuel's as stated above. The reason I don't believe this to be true is that Margaret states that her father was born in VA, and Owen clearly was not.

Did Dorothy share anything else with you concerning Margaret? Trying to get to the OHS today since they are open until 9pm. It's hard to get away when you have two young kids at home for the summer :)

Kathie
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I only corresponded with

I only corresponded with Dorothy a couple of times before she died and didn't exchange much info with her. I have collected some of her postings on the genealogy boards however and will compile them here for those who are interested:

"Does anyone have any info about Margaret Ervin-b.1837- Ohio? She was born in Vinton Co.,Ohio. I know she had a daughter, Sarah Jane, who was born in 1857, and grew up to marry a James McManis from Dundas,Ohio. Margaret was unmarried when Sarah Jane was born, so Sarah took her mother's maiden name of Ervin. Need to find out who Margaret`s parents were. I`ve heard that their names were Jane and Owen,or Oscar Ervin, but I`m not sure. Margaret was from Vinton township,Vinton,Co., Ohio, near the town of Radcliff. She married Edward Molihan in 1859. Can anyone help with info? Thank you. Dorothy Morgan

"Hi Mary. Yes, James and Sarah Jane McManis are my grandparents--my mother`s parents. The dates on the stones are wrong. Sarah Jane was born in 1857 and died 1944. James was born in 1846 and died 1940. I have the memorial books for them and of course, verbal history down through the years from my mother. Jesse Hylas was my mother`s brother, so he would be my uncle. And you are Richard McManis`s daughter, right? His parents were Bert and Gertie. I can remember them. Gertie had red hair and she was a sister to Mary McManis, John`s wife. Do you know who Sarah Janes grandparents were? I am meaning Margaret Irvin`s mother and dad. Any help needed. Thanks.Dorothy Morgan

"Does anyone have any info on a Jane Hollinshead who married an Ervin/Irvin from Ohio in the early 1800`s? They had a child named Margaret Ervin/Irvin, in 1837. Don`t know the father`s first name. Need to find out the maiden name of Margaret`s mother, and the full name of her father. Thank you for any help you can give. Margaret Ervin was my great grandma. Dorothy Morgan!!!

"Does anyone have any info on Margaret Irvin/Ervin b 1837 and d 1918? Need to find out who her parents were. She had a daughter, Sarah Jane Irvin, in 1857. Margaret was not married at the time, so the child went by her name, Irvin. Margaret later married Edward Molihan, in 1859. They had 9 children. Anyway, seeking names of Margaret`s parents. She was from Vinton township, in Vinton County,Ohio. Any help appreciated.Thank you.Dorothy Morgan!!!!

"Does anyone know any thing about any Ervins/Irvins ,who lived here during that time?I am trying to find out the names of Margaret Ervin/Irvin.She lived in Vinton Co., but i think she may have lived in Meigs Co prior to that. She was born in 1837 and she died in 1918. She had a daughter before she was married named Sarah Jane Irvin. When Sarah was about 2 years old, Margaret married Edward Mollahan/Molihan and they had several kids. I hope someone can help me determine who her parents were. Any help appreciated.Thank you. Margaret and Edward lived in Vinton township,Vinton County, in and near Radcliff,Ohio. Margaret is my g grandma, and her daughter Sarah Jane (Irvin) is my grandma. Hope someone sees this who knows some Irvins/Ervins. Thank you Dorothy "

I'm wondering where she got the "Hollinshead" name? I wish she were still around to join this discussion.

Amy
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Joined: Feb 13 2008
Adding this link in case it comes in handy later...

Found this tidbit about Dorothy's family during research today.  Thought it might come in handy for this topic later. 

dervin
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Joined: Feb 5 2010
Samuel, Sr.

This dual appearance in the census of 1850 is mentioned in the jonesjump page. Notice that Sam picked up his entire family in Vinton Co. and moved to Scioto Co. in less than a month. Notice also that in all the census' in which he appears, he NEVER reports his age or place of birth accurately. It's wrong in a different way every time. Perhaps Sam held census takers in disdain for some reason, perhaps he wasn't home whenever they appeared, perhaps it has to do with the reason he was placed in the asylum for a while, who knows. As far as where he is from, Amy has a piece on these pages that speaks to the jurisdictional and political boundaries that swirled around many citizens though they themselves may have been stationary, tying the efforts of historians like us in knots. There's also the Penns. and Md. disputes over their border that resulted in the establishment of the Mason-Dixon line. Put this together with a guy who can't or won't give accurate information and you have a complete mess.

royervin
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Joined: Nov 19 2014
Samuel Ervin

I believe there were at least two and perhaps as many a four Samuel Ervins during our search span. Samuel has the name spelled at least three different ways in the Federal Censuses. It Seems like the Samuel Ervin, my ggg-grandfather, show no record of my gg-grandfather, John Ervin, b. Paris, Pendleton Co. KY in 1805. They came to Gallia Co. [now Meigs} in the first decade of the 19th century. [re, Larkin, Judge Edgar Ervin, et.al.]. Dates differ. I believe there is more info at the Meigs Co. Genealogical Society and Public Library. Also the Civil War Records of his descendants. If Samuel was born in MD, now PA, then his father or Grandfather wasn't David IRVIN, but may have been Robert. Worth checking.

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